The web is built around text, not sound. Learn how to take advantage of the way the web was built including getting into search engines, onto forums, and generally in front of people browsing the web.
Photo by Andrea Ross.
Mark Blevis: I’m Mark Blevis.
Bob Goyetche: And I’m Bob Goyetche and welcome to special audio from Podcasters Across Borders 2007 right here on the Canadian Podcast Buffet.
Mark Blevis: And if PAB2007 wasn’t enough for you, there’s going to be another. That’s right, Kingston, Ontario, Canada. Just like last year and the year before; June 20th, 21st and 22nd, same place, the Holiday Inn Kingston Waterfront. Stay tuned to the Canadian Podcast Buffet and keep watching www.podcastersacrossborders.com for details that you need to attend the conference.
Bob Goyetche: This episode is brought to you in part by TD Canada Trust. Stay tuned to the end of the show to find out how you can get a free iPod. Let’s go back and listen to our friend Julien Smith presenting on “How To Get Your Podcast Seen As Well As Heard”.
Julien Smith: I’m currently wrecked, however thankfully I can do this talk in my sleep because I have done it so many times and I live and breathe it pretty much all the time. You guys know this page? You’re familiar with it? You may have used it time and time again. Is there anybody here who still uses Yahoo or MSN? That’s what I thought, thank you very much. The title of this talk is “How to get your podcast seen as well as heard”. Do you guys hear me properly? Yeah, okay good. How to get seen as well as heard, which basically means that podcasters need to realize a few core things. The first one is that the internet was there before them, which is something that may shock some of us, especially those of us that have very personal shows where we talk for half an hour, sometimes without end somewhat like my show. And that’s the first thing. And the second thing that we need to realize is that there…we basically need to start playing the web’s game. And that the web will take a really long time to play our game and it’s not going work out very well if we continue to try and coax them in our direction. We have to go where they are, and where they are is here.
Now as you know, there are two buttons on Google, although increasingly you’ll see more and more things appear. The first one is “Search” and the second one is “I’m feeling lucky”. But it might as well say “I trust you”. Because for those people that use Google, a large portion of them, who are either clicking “I’m feeling lucky” or who are just clicking through, trust it practically without question. They’ll go to it and if they want to find out about financial aid, they’ll type it in. And if Financial Aid Podcast is not there, that’s because the Financial Aid Podcast is not important. And if I type in Hip Hop Podcast and my thing doesn’t show up, that’s because as a Hip Hop podcast, my podcast is not important. Every single one of you has a show. Every single one of you needs to find the huge increasing number of people out there that are already paying attention to the kind of thing you’re talking about. But the problem is, is the web does not work in audio. The web has been around practically almost for twenty years and it’s been working in text ever since because text is smaller. And we just, that’s how we work. Increasingly, you know, just through words written on a screen and Google can search for that. But it can’t search, for the most part, through your audio. And it’s not really cost efficient for it to do that. So you have to decide: do you want Google to care about your podcast, and if so, you have to become more than just a podcast. Because Google does not care about your podcast…thanks Mitch…ruining that for me…Google does not give a damn about what your podcast is about. It doesn’t care and unfortunately it has the eyeballs and the ears and everything. And you currently probably need more of them, everybody needs more of them.
So, this is a talk about how the web is about text, and about how to get Google to trust you, how to get Google to care about your podcast. And I mean basically what we’re going to do is we’re going to go through a little bit of talking and some question and answer because the majority of us here as podcasters, basically created a podcast because we heard a podcast and we’re like, hey, how does that work? And we’re not really technologists. We’re not really people that are deep into the web. There are a few people here that have been on the web for a very long time. But the majority of us haven’t and so we’re at a disadvantage. And the reason that everybody knows what Chris Penn does, he has a Financial Aid Podcast, what Mitch Joel does, you know, because he does Six Pixels of Separation, is because they are immersed in the web and they know how the web works.
And so I want to help all of you guys know how the web works. If you have a PR podcast then everybody who is into PR should be able to find you. If you have a podcast…and it doesn’t matter what it is. You have a Podsafe music podcast, a Rock podcast, you have an electronic music podcast, whatever it is, you got to be in here. Otherwise nobody cares, because the audience of millions of internet users are going here every day and they’re not going to go looking. They’re sick of going looking. They have 24 hours in a day, just like you do, and they’re always feeling rushed. And if you do not put them, yourself directly in front of them, they’re gonna pass right by you. And they’ll be like, whatever, I don’t have the time.
So, I have a lot of different things that I have to talk about. Things that are super important for a podcaster to know. And I mean obviously, the first one is, become more than a podcaster. Become a native web user. There’s a lot of us that use iTunes, there’s a lot of us that use other, you know, stuff like related to podcasting. Maybe we use GarageBand if we have a Mac, maybe we use CastBlaster, maybe we use whatever application. We upload our show and we’re like, okay, I think I figured out how it happened. There we go, put it on Libsyn and then we leave. And we’re like, we come back a couple of days later and we’ll be like huh, the listenership has not increased. We need to go deeper into the web and realize that there’s people all over the place. And so the first thing I’m going to ask you is to stop being a podcaster. Just be a web producer. What does that mean? That means blogging. That means communicating with people on the web. Communicating through instant messenger rooms. Communicating on forums. All of these things are important if you’re going to get people to reach you. You’re an important voice in your own niche. The people, if you are an expert in your niche, then people are going to want to find out about what it is you have to say because you have a lot of expertise and they want to know, they just, they don’t know that yet.
So, if anybody would like to volunteer, I usually do this about every time I do this talk. Let’s talk about one specific podcast. Anybody want to volunteer? I know you, somebody I don’t know? Okay, take a microphone because I won’t be able to hear you properly.
What we’re going to do is we’re going to talk about your specific podcast and we’re going to try and figure out ways for you specifically to get connected with an audience that you should have. What’s your name?
Julien Smith: Hey how are you?
Beth Lawrence: Great, how are you?
Julien Smith: I’m okay.
Beth Lawrence: Good.
Julien Smith: So, umm, let me tell you how I started out with this. I didn’t know…I’ve been in a similar position to pretty much a lot of the people here and going okay, so I have a show, kind of about Hip Hop, but kind of about this thing. And if you’re like me, you try to describe your show for about 45 seconds so the other person is kinda looking in the other direction and they’re like, alright. So, you know, it was difficult. And then all of a sudden, I sort of started realizing that from this wonderful little box here, there were a lot of people coming to my site and figuring out who I was. So we’re going to help that happen for more people.
Okay, so what’s the name of your show?
Beth Lawrence: Grow See This dot com.
Julien Smith: And what’s it about?
Beth Lawrence: Gardening.
Julien Smith: Do you like gardening?
Beth Lawrence: Yes.
Julien Smith: Specific kind of gardening or just gardening?
Beth Lawrence: Gardening in general and like how to and different things that I observe, ‘cause I design and build gardens, that’s what I do. So I just bring my video camera to work and…
Julien Smith: Okay, now…
Beth Lawrence: …and write about, I blog as well as…
Julien Smith: Okay, you also blog…
Beth Lawrence: Yeah…
Julien Smith: Okay, how long you been blogging for?
Beth Lawrence: Since January.
Julien Smith: Do you own your own domain?
Beth Lawrence: Yes.
Julien Smith: Okay, what’s the name of your domain?
Beth Lawrence: Grow See This dot com.
Julien Smith: Okay, so basically what we want to do is we want to focus on a number of things that are incredibly important. And the first one is: own your domain. Everybody here needs to own their domain. You can choose any registrar, it doesn’t matter what you choose, they’re all the same. And then if you go and you pick up your domain name, the first thing that happens is that you have control. Because if you have a Blogger blog or blogger.com or whatever, you know, you don’t have control over what’s happening on your site. It belongs to them. And the “if I tell you to do something”, I’ll tell you, for example, oh, change the title tags because up here if you see where I’m pointing my mouse, although it’s quite small, that’s a title. And if Blogger is taking care of your blog instead of you, you can’t control that. So you did the right thing. The first thing you need to do, which is own a domain. Now is it a WordPress Blog?
Beth Lawrence: No.
Julien Smith: What does it run under?
Julien Smith: It runs under Drupal? Okay, Drupal’s a good choice too. The majority of the people here, do they run off of Libsyn? Raise your hand if you run off of Libsyn. Those that now have their hands raised…keep your hands up, come on, you need exercise. those of you that have your hands raised, do you also have your own domain or your own site? So, if you don’t have your own site, then I would like you to keep your hand up. If you do have your own site, lower your hand. So all of you own your own site and don’t work off of Libsyn? You guys have progressed a lot since the last time I’ve had this conversation. Thank you very much, this is great. So let’s work on something specific…go…what is the…?
Beth Lawrence: G-R-O-W-S-E-E-T-H-I-S. Growseethis.
Julien Smith: T-H-I-S?
Beth Lawrence: Yes, Growseethis.
Julien Smith: Growseethis, that’s great. Dot com…hey there we go. This is a very nice website.
Beth Lawrence: Thank you.
Julien Smith: It’s much cooler than my website, let’s choose something else.
Beth Lawrence: Umm we’re, if you…
Julien Smith: I don’t know we can’t do this anymore.
Beth Lawrence: If you put the curser…
Julien Smith: Okay, so this is a very well built website already. I…there’s a lot of things that you need to take a look at on a website if you’re first starting to figure one out. And you’re like okay, so now I have my own website, what’s the next thing I do? You need to understand that our friend, Google over here, who I’m gonna try and keep open, is always looking for a number of things. So let’s say that we’re going to type in gardening podcast. And you’ll notice that what Google does, as you probably are already aware of, is it searches for the words “gardening podcast” on the page. If your words “gardening podcast” is not on the page, then you don’t appear there.
So the first question you need to ask yourself is well, well, okay, so I need to have these words on. So what are people searching for? And, so you need to find out if you’re already in a niche, for example, gardening, you need to find out what people are searching for. Now I am not a gardener, although we talked earlier yesterday. And in Montreal, there is a lot of urban gardening going on, so that’s pretty cool. But if you are not a gardener or if you are just kind of maybe you know gardening, but you don’t necessarily know what people are already talking about on the web relating to gardening, there’s a number of different tools that will help you out. One of them is “Google Trends”. And that will tell you what people are searching for, www.trends.google.com, please write this down. Gardening…there we go. That’s how many people in Google…it doesn’t tell you a number, but it will you the trends of whether or not they’re going up or down. General trends of whether or not what people are searching for, how often they’re searching for gardening compared to the year before that. And it’ll tell you why these people are searching for it. If say number “A” here, I don’t know, letter “A”, it’ll say oh, and it’ll relate it to something in the news: “Gardening Expert Offers Tips for the Spring”. I’m going to close Twitter, sorry Dude.
Yeah, it’s just one example of why it rose though. So it tries to find trends based on things that have happened in the news and why people search for gardening so. It would go all the way down to 2007 here, but the most recent example is “F” which is say “Feline Stealing Gardening Gloves of Pelham”. It tries to relate them. But what it generally will be able to do is it will be able to connect you with how many people are searching. So then I can put in a coma and I can type in “gardening podcasts” or just “garden”. So it’ll say oh, well, this is the number of people in red searching for garden versus the people in blue searching for gardening. So you get an idea of what it is that people are searching for. And let’s try again “gardening podcasts” as the third. It’s not even on the chart…oh it is on the chart but it’s pretty low, it’s quite at the bottom. But the important thing to know is that those people are people that actually specifically are looking for a show like yours. So even though the numbers look daunting and you’re like wow, I could really, I should go for a garden, you’re not going to reach garden. Because there’s, you know, any number, a massive number of people that are searching for gardening websites…I’m sorry this isn’t my computer. And right now there’s a huge amount of competition under “garden”. There’s 586 million websites. Whereas if I type in “gardening podcasts”, there’s going to be a million. So approximately a 500 to 1 ratio of you getting to the front page, you know.
And as we were talking, Mitch was talking about before in terms of marketing, Google is not the only thing that you should care about. Search engine not the only thing you should care about, but if you’re not paying attention to this, it’s basically like saying well, you know what, actually I’ll swim across the Atlantic instead of flying. Because there are people every day, searching for the exact things that you are looking for. And as podcasting becomes more pervasive, those people will know to search for podcasts. They’re not just typing in “gardening show” anymore. They’re typing “gardening podcast”. They’re typing in “gardening podcast” and they’re typing in the location where they are. So right in where you are, you know. All these different things are coming in to place.
So the first thing is, is here up at the top, this is just an example. I mean, having not really looked at your site very much, is your site a gardening site or is it a gardening podcast exclusively? Does it have gardening tips that are all written on text? Are you blogging? What else is happening on your site? Would you describe it accurately as a garden journal?
Beth Lawrence: Yes.
Julien Smith: Yes? And do you think people search for a garden journal more than they search for gardening podcast? You sort of find out approximately how many people are searching every month. There’s a number of tools that will allow you to do this. I guess what I’m trying to point at is the fact that search engines right now have the largest amount of trust of pretty much any websites in the world. And it’s very important for all of you to do a number of things in order to get people over to your website. The first time that I saw Chris Penn talk, he said hey, you know, you need to go, and I went and I went to look you up. And so you type in “hip hop podcast”, but you don’t show up, how come you don’t show up? Now it’s funny ‘cause I’ve dropped in the past few days. But now I’m number three. The last time we talked, I was down to number eight or something like that which is pretty funny, considering my show is not really about hip hop at all. But, what it does say is that, you know, and I mean these people that are reaching me now are people that are looking for this thing.
So if we take a look again at your garden journal website, start targeting key words. Start targeting…don’t again…don’t write for search engines. Write for human beings. Human beings are the people that are on the web but you have to write for them in text. I have a client that I work with that’s a video blog. And for a very long time they were…they do recipes. And basically they had videos but they didn’t have, the instruct…, the…anything about the video written underneath. So all you were getting was the title of the video and nothing else on the page, which means that anybody that looks for them, can’t find them. And so you want to start typing in these things, looking for them. And this is a long process.
I’m going to give you a couple of blogs you should look for and read regularly to get you an idea of how these things work. I’m sorry this is a bit abstract and high-level, but like, we need to start with the way that things are working. Start maybe a little bit with baby steps. First try, type in S-C-O-B-O-O-K dot com. Whoever has a computer right now should be subscribing to this show, should be subscribing to this blog. And it’ll give you an idea of how search engines work. And it’ll give you an idea of things that you can find out about and that will help you get more subscribers, little by little, every day and one day at a time. And again, the important thing is not to reach all the way up to number one. It’s not to exclusively use this channel, but it’s to connect with people where they exist already. And the important thing there is doing your own search engines, going and finding forums, communicating with existing communities. Because you have an existing community on your website that already looks at your show and that listens and watches your videos, for example. But there’s any number of larger communities out there that are also very passionate about the things that you care about. So you want to go out there and reach them. This is not anything that I can do with a 120 people in a room, you know. I can’t go and give you ideas about every single one of your shows although I’ll be glad to talk with you afterwards. But let me just tell you that the amount of people that have reached my show from the time when I didn’t care about this, to the time where I started caring about this, is exponential. It goes from something along the lines of, I don’t know, 500 people, for example, to 10,000 people. And this is just by getting people to find out who you are and being able to write the way that you do on a website, but thinking about what it is that they’re searching for. And you’ll find that over time, as you do this, little bit at a time, reading, you know, _______ is out of work, you know, for example. All these different sites that talk about search engines and that give you an idea of how a search engine works, search engine land. These things will tell you one step at a time how people are searching and finding you.
You can look into your statistics if you want to. I have a… guess I’ll go into mine…oh wait, I don’t even know my own password, it’s on my own computer. But, I mean, go into your stats with something like Google Analytics, you know…yeah…just type in…okay, there we go, log in…So we have the site www.christopherpenn.com here. These are all the things that are happening. The pages that people visit, how they visit them, etc. Google Analytics is something you should have on your site, you know, to get people…to get an idea of who’s visiting, when, when the traffic spikes occur, why they occur. And when you write about certain subjects, why do they come back? Do they come back at all? Are there repeat visitors? All that stuff. And how people find your site, their search engines. And when you get that information, then you’ll be able to, not start from nothing, but start from something that already exists, look at it and go okay, so people are finding me through gardening podcasts but not through garden podcast. Why? And then look at that subtle distinction and then realize, huh, well garden is significantly huger in terms of the way people, you know, search in search engines in gardening. Maybe I should be talking about a garden podcast instead of a gardening podcast. These subtle things point to massive differences in between the way that people will…whether or not they’ll find you, whether they will or whether or not they won’t, you know. It’s very subtle things. It’s incredibly important to look at and it’s incredibly easy to overlook as a podcaster because we’re all concerned with audio. We’re concerned about making good shows, and that’s incredibly important. But as long as you remain only a podcaster and as long as you are not a web native, someone who is caring about the way the web works and understanding the way things are on the web in text, you will be missing out. And so come see me afterwards if you want specific things to talk about. But this is an introduction to all of these things that are very important for every podcaster to know so that they can continue to thrive and still be there five years down the line, ten times as much audience has they had before of more. Anybody have any questions? Let’s go with Dave first.
Dave: Would the recent acquisition of FeedBurner…
Julien Smith: Yeah?
Dave: …from Google, do you recommend using…I still use FeedBurner…
Julien Smith: Sure.
Dave: …to track what’s happening, I don’t use Google Analytics. But should I start using this or are they going to merge together anyways? Or one gonna, you know, cause Google’s….
Julien Smith: Oh, well you might as well…I would rather you started yesterday. So I would say go ahead and use everything that you can.
Julien Smith: …and it…I mean some people have privacy concerns with regards to Google having all of their information. I’m not particularly concerned with it. I see the benefits as far outweighing the possible negative consequences. And so I would say yeah, subscribe to FeedBurner. I’ve always gotten the best stuff through FeedBurner and I can see trends that way, so go for it. Oh, I’m sorry go ahead.
Mark Blevis: We’ll go with Donna first.
Donna: This is great stuff, Julien. I’d like you to talk about show notes for a moment as opposed to transcripts. I’m a big believer in show notes but not necessarily in transcripts because I want people to listen.
Julien Smith: Sure.
Donna: What do you feel about that?
Julien Smith: I feel…I would suggest you do both. I have often told people that they needed to transcribe their shows. There are a number of ways to do this. You can do it yourself if you really had a lot of time on your hands. Or if you have approximately ten bucks for every episode, which I consider to be a decent investment, you can get somebody else to do it. And if you get somebody else to do it, then it’s kind of automatically taken care of for you. Now in terms of show notes, the important things that you talk about should be there. And I mean, going back to what we were talking about before, the more information you have on a page, the more people will be able to see oh, I see, I’m able to find this site because, you know, they’re talking about these subjects. And Google understands English, you know, on a level that even us in this room are not able to really get the language, you know. We understand it on such a deep level that they’ll be able to set up oh, okay, so this site is related to this site and that site is related to this site. But even though these two were, these sites are using the same words, this one is talking about apples and that one is talking about apple. Now to us, it’s obvious, but to a machine it isn’t obvious. But they are able to figure these things out. So the more you have on the page and the more you’re working in actual real languages, typing in sentences instead of just typing in, you know like, bullet points, the more you’ll find that things will work out for you on that level. And people will be able to find you. Like, for example, I have a show that plays, has music, all the artists, the names of the tracks, etc., all the information. And it helps, it does. Next…oh sorry, go ahead.
Bruce Murray: Hey Jules.
Julien Smith: Yo.
Bruce Murray: Bruce Murray, Zedcast.com. I had a very small statistics package and I started looking at it as much as I could. And I noticed some bizarre trends. Like one of the things was, one of the most common ways that people were finding my website for a long time was through a photograph of me sitting in a dentist’s chair with a rubber dam in my mouth. And I couldn’t figure out what…if this was a latex fetish or possibly dental students. How would I find out why it was that they were going to…that they were using that route to get through? Could that be something that the Google Trends could…?
Julien Smith: A lot of it is inference, you know what I mean. Like, you’re not always going to be able to figure out why. To give you an example, I did a show to sort of relate to what you’re doing, called “Why To be Afraid of White People”. And it turned out that I was ranking for the words “white people” around the third page of Google. And so this gigantic racism discussion started on my blog. Sometimes these things will happen and you have no control over them. And so, hopefully, you know, that page will…you’ll be able to solve that problem soon. But I mean, it’ll always happen. There’ll always be…okay…you’re happy with it…oh, okay I see. Alright go Virgil. Oh sorry, go ahead Brent.
Brent: Just one more thing to add about transcripts. A good reason to have them also is people who are deaf can enjoy your content.
Julien Smith: Yeah right.
Julien Smith: Absolutely true.
Brent: …and more key words are always good for Google, so…
Julien Smith: Yeah, and we made a recommendation earlier, which I said to Beth but I wasn’t able to say to everyone but I thought would be a good idea. In some cases, if you have people in your communities, like I was just telling her that there was a huge urban gardening thing happening in Montreal. And I was like well, you know, it’s huge, but all these people speak French. Why don’t you get somebody in French to dub your podcast and you can just have a French version right there. It would be really easy. And so if that becomes, then becomes a French transcript and there’s this whole other world that opens up in terms of reaching audiences, even if you don’t speak the language. You know, these are all different examples of how to be able to use that.
Mark Blevis: So we have time for two more quick questions, over here.
Julien Smith: Let’s get them.
Mark Blevis: And then the gentleman over.
Audience: Mine is tied in with the picture thing. And it’s specifically Flickr Tags. I’ve found a lot of interesting sights through the little search bar in Mozilla plug-in for Flickr.
Julien Smith: Yeah.
Audience: You know, and all their, you know, DiG and all that stuff. But I’ve found some really interesting stuff visually with the Flickr tags and then I just go to the profile and then I go check out their sites. I’m just wondering if there’s any analytical data on that at all.
Julien Smith: You know what? That’s a good question. I don’t think that…I’ve never personally seen it. There’s…I really have no idea. I’m sorry, I’ve no clue.
Audience: Also in a way to follow up with Flickr. I do a electronic virtual evidence from Lx7.ca. I do a lot of…I go to a lot of electronic music events and write reviews and then post the reviews on different message boards and different forums, in Last.fm, all over the place. And at the bottom of every post, I put that little tag that says “first posted on Lx7.ca”. Just a very little link back to my site or back to the actual article. And as podcasters, the people who make contact, it’s one thing to have it on your site. But if you can get out into the community and actually like, share your content where the people are and then link back to it, it’s another great way to get people to come back and maybe discover other things about your show.
Julien Smith: Absolutely true.
Audience: Or about you. And that…it’s, I think, as content creators, it’s something we really need to get into.
Julien Smith: And I mean, especially on community sites such as forums, the amount of traffic that goes through those sites is ridiculous, you know what I mean. As much as we’re like oh, yeah, you know, I’m the number one whatever the hell podcast, and we think we’re huge, the amount of people going through forum sites on any as niche a community as can be, is unbelievable. And taking advantage of that, and this goes back to being part of a community, being part of a circle of trust, like we keep talking about and in podcasting conferences, being in groups like that is amazingly helpful in getting the word out. That’s a whole other subject. But please, I would invite all of you to sort of Google it and you know, figure out more.
Mark Blevis: Tod Maffin just traded me his laptop for one quick question, so we’ll…
Julien Smith: Get up, get up.
Tod Maffin: You said you can get…whoa…you said you can get transcripts of podcasts for 10 bucks, where, how?
Julien Smith: People that don’t know…
Mark Blevis: Don’t tell. Don’t tell, the ones of us who are using…
Julien Smith: Okay I’m sorry. People that…I was just going to say generally people that speak English quite well, but that do not live in Canada or the United States.
There you go. Somebody in Arkansas, 44 cents per recorded minute.
Mark Blevis: Website, URL.
Julien Smith: I don’t have a URL…
Mark Blevis: Do a Google on Transcript, Arkansas, 44 cents.
Julien Smith: Transcript, Arkansas, 44 cents, find it. But, I mean, you know, it’s possible. Figure it out.
Mark Blevis: Thank you very much, Julien.
Julien Smith: Thank you.
Bob Goyetche: This episode of Canadian Podcast Buffet featuring Podcasters Across Borders audio is brought to you in part by TD Canada Trust. When you switch your main chequing account to TD by August 3rd, you will qualify for either a Free Shuffle, iPod Nano or a 30 gig iPod. Visit www.tdswitch.com/pab for details.
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